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Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn - What about those tabs?

Published: Sep. 1, 2009
You might be hard-pressed to file these down.
You might be hard-pressed to file these down.
Photo: Fox

Dear Lennard,
I just returned from a long road trip to ride the Leadville 100. I probably put the bike on top of the car a few times a day, taking the front wheel off each time. I grew to wonder about the “lawyer lips” that turn the quick release into something with the efficiency of a wing nut.

What do the pros do? Given the efficiency with which the yellow-clad Mavic guy can change a racer's wheel, I'm guessing that none of their forks are so equipped. Do they get special forks, or do they simply file off the excess? And finally, is there anything to the claims that the braking force of a front disc can eject even a properly clamped front wheel?
Brian

Dear Brian,
Yes, pro road teams do not have what are most commonly referred to as “lawyer tabs” on their forks, for the reason you cite.

When the team frames and forks come in, team mechanics usually line up all of the forks and grind or file off all of the lawyer tabs, production-line style. This goes for domestic pro teams as well as European ones.

Depending on fork style, if the lawyer tab (a.k.a. “secondary wheel-retention device,” “Nader hook,” etc.) fully wraps around the face of the dropout, there can be a danger in removing some material from the face of the dropout while grinding it away.

This is a no-no, because for the fastest possible wheel changes, it is imperative that the thickness of the dropouts on all of the team’s bikes be identical, so that the mechanic does not need to adjust the quick-release skewer at all but rather can just flip it closed and send the rider on his or her way.

On the other hand, some forks just have two simple nubs sticking out laterally from the bottom tips of the dropout, and those are easy to file off without changing the overall thickness of the dropout. (I know because I do this on the forks of all of my personal road bikes, which generally have Alpha Q forks with two simple nubs like this as lawyer tabs. I usually use a file, but sometimes I use a bench grinder.)

So, the experience of the mechanics and the style of dropout may dictate how the tabs are removed. Sometimes, mechanics may whip through a stack of forks, removing the lawyer tabs with a power tool – a bench grinder, die grinder or Dremel tool. Otherwise, they usually file them off by hand.

Jordan Schware, a domestic pro team mechanic (he has wrenched for professional cycling teams such as Toyota-United, Rock Racing, KBS/Medifast, and OUCH-Maxxis) and proprietor of www.theGEARmovement.com says that he always removed the tabs from every single team fork on every team he worked for.

“I don’t see any use for lawyer tabs,” Schware said. “The only reason you’d want them is for the same reason that you’d want a lawyer.”

That said, it’s important to remember that things like warranties are usually written by attorneys, and such "modifications" may negate the manufacturer’s obligations to you in the event of a fork failure, even if that failure is not directly related to your removal of the tabs. Unnecessary as they might be for a competent rider or an experienced mechanic, you might want to think twice before removing the tabs if you don’t want to risk losing your warranty.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
Is the new 2x10 SRAM mountain bike stuff compatible with the SRAM road bike drive train, in terms of gear spacing and cable pull? I can see some intriguing possibilities for compact crank setups with gears low enough for us cyclo-tourists.
Steve

Dear Steve,
Yes. XX uses SRAM’s “Exact Actuation,” and is the same as SRAM 10-speed road in terms of cable pull and gear spacing.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
I am currently running a Dura-Ace 7801 drive train with the exception of a Fulcrum Racing R Torq compact crankset (50-34) and a SRAM PG-1070 11-23 cassette. I need to replace the chain and would like some advice.

Is the new Dura-Ace 7900 chain compatible with the SRAM cassette and Fulcrum crank? It seems that they made some modifications to the outer and inner plates of the 7900 chain that were designed specifically for the 7900 crank and cassette. I wonder if it's worth going with the 7900 chain, sticking to the 7801 chain, or going a completely different route all together.
Doug

Dear Doug,
I’d just stick with the 7801 chain or a SRAM chain, if I were you. I can’t see any point to getting the 7900 chain, as it is asymmetrical and specifically designed for 7900 cogs and chainrings. I haven’t tried this combination, and I’m sure Shimano would tell you either that it’s not compatible or at least that it is neither designed for nor tested with other manufacturers’ parts.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
I've been reading your Q&A blog and saw many questions about the reconstruction for the Campy shifters (Not My Favorites), but my question is: Since I'm riding SRAM Red is there any possibility to rebuild them or I need to replace in the time they've been serving?
Alex

Dear Alex,
Yes, they can be rebuilt, although replacement parts are not easy to locate.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
Can I use a Chorus 9-speed rear derailleur with 10-speed cogs, chain & Ergo shifters?
Mark

Dear Mark,
Yes, as long as the wider jockey wheel cage does not contact your spokes.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
Are Dura-Ace ST-7700 shifters able to be rebuilt? My rear shifter has difficulty up-shifting. It takes sometimes as many as 10 shifts to move one gear. As per Shimano’s advice, I removed the shifter, soaked it in degreaser for three hours, air dried, and lubed the insides with TriFlow by inserting a tube into the shifter. It still doesn’t work.
Aaron

Dear Aaron,
No, they cannot be rebuilt.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
I am setting up a new ’cross bike and would like to use a 7900 Dura Ace crankset with a Dura Ace 9-speed drivetrain. Will this work? If not can chainring spacers help? What size would I need?
Rick

Dear Rick,
I haven't tried that combo. Sorry. But why would you want 39-53 chainrings on a ’cross bike?
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
Any advice on keeping a rear wheel in a drop out? My drive side pulls out occasionally when I torque hard or pull out from a standing stop. I’ve noticed the problem is worse with titanium and chromed frames (which I’ve owned).

I’ve tried cranking down hard on the quick-release lever, making sure the nut on the drive side is very tight, and using different makes of quick-release levers. All seem to be temporary solutions at best.

It also seems to be a problem with different makes of wheels, Campy (which I run most), Shimano, Mavic, etc.
Rick

Dear Rick,
The best solution I have is to get some of these DT Swiss skewers. They allow you to crank down harder on the dropout than most quick releases.
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
Most cycling component companies recommend greasing the threads on bottom brackets and other components, yet at the same time a lot of these components have what appears to be thread locking compound (usually blue or white) on the threads. Doesn’t the idea of greasing the threads work against thread locking compound?
Ken

Dear Ken,
Good question and one that lots of people have. Actually, threadlock usually works by expanding, rather than by gluing, so the grease could allow the bolt to go in further and more smoothly yet not impede the function of the threadlock.
Lennard

Feedback on last week’s column on switching Campagnolo 8-speed levers to 10-speed.

Dear Lennard,
I'm sorry, but your response to Larry (8/25/09 column) regarding the conversion of 1998 Campy 9-speed levers to 10-speed levers still left me wondering whether this is possible or not. Are you saying that the difference in the diameter of the index gear definitely prevents the conversion or that it shouldn't affect it? You mention several other factors that shouldn't hinder the conversion, but I'm unclear on whether the final answer is yes or no.

Also, it seems from your comments that whatever applies to the 1998 9-speed levers would also apply to older 8-speed levers. Is this true? I'm interested, in that I have some older 8-speed levers that would be much more useful to me as 10-speed levers.
Doug

Dear Doug,
The answer is no. See Peter Chisholm’s letter below.
Lennard

Lennard,
1998 levers are unique in that they are 9-speed but the innards are pre ERGO brain and cannot be converted to 10s. The end bolt and inner flattened bolt is different on 1998 than 1999 and also 1997 9s (and 1996 8s) innards. BUT the gent’s levers can still be rebuilt, just not converted to 8s or 10s. Same spring carrier (EC-RE-111 or the fiber one from 'Ultra), same shift springs.
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio’s Bicicletteria

Dear Lennard,
One reason I've always liked Campy is that everything can be rebuilt ─ if parts are available. I am now a 10-speed user (in an 11-speed world), but I still have that 1998 9-speed drive train in the cabinet in the garage and it may make its way onto a beater. I understand the right lever issues, but is there a later years' index gear that will work in the left lever?

Before I retired the shifters I overhauled the left lever but the only replacement parts I could get were the G-springs. Shifting was improved but it still would kick down a notch and rub whenever I jumped hard or hit a big Arizona bump (common). I'd like to replace the index gear because I think that's where the problem lies ─ 10 years of rounding the teeth probably make it sketchy.
Larry

Dear Larry,
Too bad you couldn’t find an index gear for that. I just looked in the QBP catalog, and it only lists Campy Ergopower parts back to 2001.

As for the possibility (not!) of 10-speed conversion, I think Peter’s answer addresses your question, too. Peter likely has that index gear and would sell you one, too.
Lennard

Feedback on last week’s column regarding Shimano Hollowtech II bottom bracket compatibility.

As the note from Shimano's Nick Murdick says, I was wrong about Shimano’s external bearing cups all being the same width. I apologize for misleading any of you into trying it.
Lennard

Hi Lennard,
As a regular reader of your column, I just read the most recent one on Velonews.com and noticed your answer about our BB compatibility. I'm afraid that our road and MTB bottom brackets actually are not the same width. Believe it or not, the road ones are wider. So while one may be able to make it work in a pinch with some custom spacers, I wouldn't exactly call them interchangeable.
Nick Murdick
Multi Service Technical Representative
Shimano American Corporation

Technical writer Lennard Zinn is a frame builder (www.zinncycles.com), a former U.S. national team rider and author of numerous books on bikes and bike maintenance including the pair of successful maintenance guides "Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance" - now available also on DVD, and "Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance," as well as "Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes" and "Zinn's Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists."

Zinn's regular column is devoted to addressing readers' technical questions about bikes, their care and feeding and how we as riders can use them as comfortably and efficiently as possible. Readers can send brief technical questions directly to Zinn. Zinn's column appears here each Tuesday.